For the Mayweather Haters

Max recently published a post about a debate on the radio between some D-list rapper named RA and Floyd Mayweather.  The spin in that article was that Floyd got owned.  But a contributor to this Monday's mailbag on maxboxing.com, has revealed that RA actually won the debate by saying stuff that wasn't true.  In other words, the rapper had no idea what he was talking about.

The email and the accompanying response from maxboxing's Gabriel Montoya is very telling.  I've pasted the full exchange below, but I just wanted to make a couple observations about first.  The emailer points out (correctly) that Mayweather called out Mosley twice when Mosley was the king of the hill, and both times Mosley declined, opting instead for higher-pay/lower-risk fights.  In perhaps the cop-out of the year, Montoya doesn't dispute the facts but rather claims that they're irrelevant.  This is vintage Mayweather hateration.  The facts don't matter.

As far as Mayweather picking on smaller fighters, there are only 2 examples.  Marquez (this is accurate but Marquez was a tune-up) and Hatton.  The Hatton argument is vacuous because Mayweather is a natural jr. welterweight, who actually walks around at a size much smaller than does Hatton.  Floyd only came up to welter to look for worthy opposition after he took the pound-for-pound title in 2005.  Nobody in their right mind denies that Mayweather could have made 140lb for that fight or that if he did, he still would have KTFO'd Hatton anyway.

It's also very interesting that a bonafide Mayweather hater like Montoya, readily admits that until the Marquez tune-up fight, Mayweather's and Pacquiao's last 3 fights have been "very similar" in terms of picking opponents who offered little-to-no threat.  Being a perrenial Cotto dick-rider, Montoya falsey paints Cotto as a tough opponent for Pacquiao, but he's part of a very small minority with that opinion for reason's that I explain here.

Lastly, I have to call out Montoya for claiming that Mayweather didn't want to fight Zab until after Zab lost to Baldomir.  The fight was already negotiated.  While it may be true that May didn't actually sign the contract until after the Baldomir loss, it would be silly to assume that he was waiting to see if Zab had chinks in his armour.  Recall, Floyd had only one fight at welterweight at the point, and even after the Zab Judah loss, he agreed to fight Judah, whom everyone agrees was much more dangerous than Baldomir, even though Floyd would have been completely justified in taking the easier Baldomir fight on account of the fact that Baldomir now had the belt.  At the end of the day, Mayweather fought the TWO previous linear champs in only his 2nd and thirds fights at 147lbs.  And speaking of only fighting guys after they've shown themselves to have some kind of fatal flaw, can anyone say, Pacquiao-De La Hoya, (or Pacquiao-Hatton for that matter)?

Here is the full discussion from maxboxing:

LIKE THEY SAY ON SUNDAY NIGHT COUNTDOWN . . .C’MON MAN?!?!?!?!?!?

 Seriously…the only thing good about that RA interview was that he asked Floyd why he doesn’t fight Shane Mosley.  Other than that it was filled with inaccurate info.  Ra said Floyd picks on smaller fighters, and claimed that Bernard is the best of this generation.  But X’s marquee wins are against…..

 Tito (smaller….he was good at 160 but I think everyone agrees 154 was his monster weight even though he only fought 3 or 4 people there)

Oscar (smaller)

Winky (smaller)

 So are we gonna gloss over Ra’s picking on smaller fighter argument that is hypocritical, or are we gonna call it both ways?

 Then he said that Floyd only wanted to fight Shane when Shane was down and out after losses.  Floyd (to my knowledge) called out Shane 2x.  In 1999 when they were only 5 lbs apart at 130-135, and Shane opted for the big money fight against Oscar instead of the high risk low reward of PBF.  And in 2006, when Shane just beat Vargas the 2^nd time in a row (again killing Ra’s PBF only wants Shane after an L theory), and was part of the infamous toothache interview.

 Look…I get it.  If I want to read stuff from people who are tired of waiting for Floyd to grow a set and fight some top challengers, I come here.  If I want to read about how Floyd is playing the game in the biggest money, lower risk fights and how its cool cause he’s the best of the last 25 years….I go to Greg’s website.  Im in the middle of both schools of thought and think Floyd should challenge himself too, but I think he’s way more smart than most of us give him credit for, and has this great master plan on how hes gonna eventually fight most of the big names and fights we want to see….but only when they make the most sense and have been simmering in the pot till its as juicy as it can get.

 The fact of the matter is that PBF has nobody besides Cotto, Manny, or Shane to get the big dollars he commands…..so its safe to assume hes gonna have to take on those people in the next year or two.  Whether you like it or not, Floyd has made some calculated moves, but they’ve panned out for him thus far, and still leave him in a position to further his legacy (in a positive light).  He called Margarito overrated….and at the very least, Margarito has HUGE asterisk mark next to his marquee win, and career for that matter, b/c the majority of people think hes been fighting with loaded gloves and isn’t the TJ Tornado everyone thought he was following his controversial win over Cotto. 

 Floyd’s now in a position to fight the 3 guys above that everyone thinks are the greatest challenge to him, and doing so while positioned to make the absolute most amount of money.  If he fights 2 of those 3 (assuming manny/cotto cancel the other person out of the dance), I’d be happy with his fights as of late. 

 I also think PWill is a HUGE challenge for anyone….but I gotta be honest…..Al Haymon aint letting it happen and I’m still not 100% ready to forgive PWill about that stink fest from Quintana part 1.  He’s ALMOST made amends to me that off night…but not quite yet.  I notice that lots of boxing fans are like Gold Diggin Groupies; They’re quick to jump on the next best thing without figuring out if it has potential to last a while or is a flash in the pan.  Please put this in the mail bag…..i think these are good points from a honest PBF fan.  And even if it doesn’t make the bag….I’d like to hear your thoughts on it all.

Armando

Armando-

RA said himself on Steve Kim’s internet radio show “The Main Event” (which is podcast on Maxboxing.com and should be heard) that he’s fan not Walter Cronkite or somebody. He won’t be on press row this Saturday night or any other night. As far as I know he does go to the fights. He was speaking as someone who does that, pays for cable, reads the internet sites, probably argues on their forums, and has strong love and opinions about men hitting each other with gloved fists. It can’t be ignored that what happened between RA and Floyd was happenstance and was brought on by Floyd himself. RA was on the show promoting his new album and was asked about boxing because he is a hardcore fan. He got to airing out his views on Floyd, two callers called in to argue and then Floyd himself called in. RA did what any fan who agrees with him would hope to do if they were in his place. He spoke his mind freely and won the debate with Floyd with relative ease. Yes he got some timeline stuff wrong in the great Shane vs. Floyd Who Called Out Who First debate but overall, I think he won the argument. He won by making Floyd pick up the phone in the first place. If you’re great it’s generally unquestionable. Just by virtue of the fact that we can debate Floyd’s greatness by pointing out certain facts is reason enough to just simply agree he needs to step it up from here on out. No more waiting for the fight after this one because that one I swear will be against someone tough. No more excuses. No more waiting. I’m ready for some greatest ever-type stuff to start happening. I’ve been ready.

But I ask you, does it matter who called out whom or when and why it didn’t happen? I don’t think so. I prefer to live in the present and hope for a better tomorrow instead of reveling in the past and using it to justify why it’s okay to make the same mistakes.

Shane Mosley vs. Floyd Mayweather is arguably the most compelling fight in the welterweight division. It features the present welterweight champion in Shane Mosley vs. the undefeated but retired linear welterweight champion. A great champion from a generation just before Floyd’s. It’s a match-up as old as time. But Shane is 38 years old. How long should both he and fight fans wait for this one?

I don’t think Floyd waiting for the pot to boil over for some of these fights is any mystery. But what some defend as waiting for that right magic moment to put these fights on I see as a fighter wanting to see weakness in his opponents either through a loss or a bad showing before he fights them. There is precedent for this in the Zab Judah fight. Floyd did not sign the contract until after Zab dropped a split decision to Carlos Baldomir. I’d hate to see Mosley/Mayweather get diminished by Shane showing signs in the Berto fight or after what I think will be a hard fought decision-type fight.

Floyd vs. any top welter does not need to be built over six months. Great fights sell themselves.

As it stands, Berto-Mosley is a done deal for January 30 so I suppose any arguing about what Floyd will do will have to wait. I am dreading the inevitable rabid speculation over who the Pacquiao/Cotto winner will face that will begin as soon as Michael Buffer finishes the final official particulars. I do look forward to breaking down that fight and hopefully seeing it. At the earliest, Shane and Floyd can get together for a showdown next summer provided Mosley beats Berto like I think he will.

As you alluded to, Al Haymon advises both Berto and Floyd and won’t have them fight despite Berto wearing the WBC belt Floyd lost in retirement. I think the real hidden plan here has been set in motion through Berto/Mosley. The fight is a gamble Haymon can’t lose. If Berto wins, he has a rising welterweight star with a belt. He can match him any number of ways that steer clear of Floyd. If Shane wins, it will most likely be in a tough fight. Shane will have some more miles on him but will hopefully have created the kind of buzz that pleases HBO and the casino du jour to fork over huge bails of money for this thing to go down right.

If you think about it, Floyd vs. Manny Pacquaio and Shane vs. Berto is kind of a Fantastic Four for the welters. We may get resolution in the welter rankings sooner than the Super Six begins it’s final round. If the winner of the final fight takes on Paul Williams I’ll eat my hat. If you want to be real about it, Paul Williams is the man at welterweight. He beat Margarito first and Tony was the longest reigning welterweight champion at the time with some eight defenses. Sadly, if Floyd or Berto are the last men standing, they won’t fight Williams either because of the Haymon connection and Shane doesn’t seem to want any.

Speaking from experience, trying to call Floyd on anything is a pointless task at best. You can say you’re peace but at the end of the day Floyd’s going to do what he wants. He won’t change for you or me or Mr. Moon. He’s had his tune-up, now it’s time to man up.

If you compare his and Pacquiao’s last three fights, they are every similar in that they favored the P4P kids very well. For Floyd, I’m talking - Baldomir, Oscar, and Hatton. And David Diaz, Oscar and Hatton for Manny. But now Manny has stepped it up big time in taking on Miguel Cotto. If you thought Ricky Hatton stood a chance then the last time that Floyd has been in a tough, losable fight fought on equal ground in terms of weight, age, attributes and style was in 2007. If you don’t but think Zab Judah was dangerous (and I did at the time) then it’s been since 2006. Beyond that, you have to go back to 2002 and the first Jose Luis Castillo fight for that kind of criteria to be met. Even if you’re thinking “Hey, he left out De La Hoya,” I say that’s four tough dudes out of twelve from 2002 to now; a lot of time and space between tough fights. I’m always surprised when people tell me to give Floyd some slack because he’s getting to the good part. Is he? When?

I disagree that Floyd only has Shane, Cotto or Pacquiao to contend with. He could fight Margarito at 147 is he gets his license back. Without the alleged plaster wraps and a year or so out of the ring following a brutal KO loss, Margarito is a very attractive fight for Floyd. Will the money be there? Who knows? Will the networks touch Tony? Probably not? Do I think he should be allowed to fight again? Tough question. The evidence says no. I tend to agree.

Floyd also has a rematch with Ricky Hatton that would sell huge in England. I would not be surprised to see that fight happen. Maybe not next but in a year.

Oh. And to your Bernard Hopkins argument, yeah, those three wins were against guys who were either new or not good in the weight class he fought them in. Oscar De La Hoya was not a middleweight. Winky Wright tops out at middleweight. But I disagree the Tito win wasn’t solid. Tito was a dangerous middle going into that fight. People can say what they want about 9/11 throwing him off or whatever but at the end of the day boxing is about adjusting on the fly. Bernard did. Tito didn’t. BHop beat that ass. End of story. Tito knocked the stuffing out of Joppy who was not a terrible middleweight by any stretch.

But by mentioning only those three wins, you’re conveniently leaving out what some would consider Hopkins greatest wins in the Antonio Tarver and Kelly Pavlik wins. Hopkins moved up in weight to take on Tarver. Granted he did make Kelly Pavlik come up in weight, Pavlik did show he could fight effectively above 160 in the Taylor rematch. I’m not sure I would agree BHop is the best of this generation. An argument can be made for sure. That’s another bag altogether.

If I missed anything hit me up again, man.